I realized that I haven't blogged in quite a while. It's not that I don't want to, it's just that I live a boring life and having nothing to talk about. No profound wisdom or insight or understanding; rather, I am just me. However, since the last time I posted, God has shared A LOT with me. His love and His... I don't even know how to put it into words, honestly... He just amazes me. I am so in love with Him, yet putting Him as the top priority in my life is increasingly harder every day. It's a good harder though, as God has blessed me with someone who points me to Him... constantly. My struggle now is to keep focused on God and not on man; to keep my relationship with God forthright in my mind. I am so blessed that when I do talk to said person, he keeps me on task with this. No, I am not "in a relationship" with this person, nor do I think that will happen anytime soon (ask me about courting vs. dating sometime and I'll explain it to you), but God is just bringing this brother in Christ into a strong friendship with me that I don't deserve and I can't fully comprehend. I love it though, and I thank Him everyday for this friendship (as well as all my friendships- God has RICHLY blessed me with amazing friends!).
It was this person that first told me about a phenomenon in the "Christian realm" (for lack of a better term) today. It's rather obscene when you first hear about it, at least it was for me. But the best part? It continues to be obscene, utterly ridiculous and NOT BIBLICAL at all.
The new idea is of "Drunken Glory." This is when, and I quote from their website (http://drunkenglory.com/About_Us.html), "you will experience the playful atmosphere of Heaven, as we enter the Kingdom like a little child. Believers often take themselves far too seriously, resulting in pride, critical spirits, fatigue, burnout and ultimately, moral decay. Not to mention boredom! If you have never experienced the Lord as a "fun" God, this is a chance to experience the joyful countenance of the Father."
It sounds wonderful, it sounds Biblical. Now watch what actually happens and what the outcome is at these "revivals" where they "experience the playful atmosphere of Heaven."
There is so much wrong within the video above that I don't even know where to start. But perhaps a good place to start is with their reasons behind doing this "tour" and experiencing the "ecstasy of God" like this. To do this, I am taking direct quotes from their "about us" page (http://drunkenglory.com/About_Us.html) as well as one of the videos John Crowder (the guy on the right in the video above; he is also a founder of the "Drunken Glory Tour") made around Christmas time (which can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5QT1hAaeK0 ).
THE BIG ISSUE
Here's the big issue I have with these men and what they are teaching: it's not Biblical. The following is some of the Bible references they use in order to prove that what they are teaching is in alignment with God's will.
"Samuel, Saul, David, and many others had ecstatic experience even prior to the New Covenant. While Old Testament prophets such as Isaiah, Ezekiel and Elijah regularly demonstrated unusual manifestation and wild prophetic acts, their otherworldly encounters caused them to cut against the grain of natural reason in their day."
1. Where do they have these ecstatic experiences? If I'm going to stretch it a bit, I can see it in MAYBE a few places, but even these places do not have the same foolish joy that these people appear to experience.
-Samuel: It's true, God did a lot of amazing things through Samuel and he had many personal encounters with the most high. I mean, when he was a boy he audibly heard God calling him! Wow. But I can't find a single place within the story of Samuel in which he acted like the gentlemen in the above video. He prophesied, he rebuked, he led God's people into battle, but no where does it say "And Samuel got drunk on God's joy and talked to the people as though he was filled with wine and prophesied a great revival of getting drunk on God."
-Saul: Anointing into God's calling seems to be a large part of what this "Drunken Glory Tour" is about. Saul was the first anointed king of Israel- what a big task and a big calling! But let's look at Saul's anointing and see if it was chaotic and loud like the one in the video above.
1 Samuel 9:14-10:13. Within this passage, there is nothing about the ecstasy of God being a part of the anointing ceremony. But in 10:10, it says this: "When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God come upon him in power and he joined in their prophesying." This does NOT mention being "drunk on God" or experiencing the joy of God in a trance. It also says in verse 13 that Saul stopped prophesying and then went to the high place. With John Crowder and crew, they state that they are never coming down from this drunken/trace-like state, they cannot be following the Bible or their own strange interpretation of this scripture since Saul stopped.
From his anointing, Saul went and turned away from God had told him to do in a battle- he couldn't trust the One who put him into that place of authority. It is here that Samuel rebukes Saul, saying "'You acted foolishly. You have not kept the command the Lord your God gave you; if you had, he would have established your kingdom over Israel for all time. But now your kingdom will not endure; the Lord has sought out a man after his own heart and appointed him leader of his people, because you have not kept the Lord's command." (1 Sam. 13:13-14) The rest of Saul's story is disappointing as the leader of Israel and if you have not read it, I highly encourage you to. It's amazing how God brings the glory back to Himself even through the lousy situations Saul got himself into. He brought King David out of the mess Saul put himself in. Probably the coolest and most pertinent part of this story is when David was in Saul's service. 1 Samuel 16: 14 first introduces us to Saul's mental predicament, saying "Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him." It was when he was in this state that David would play his harp to calm him, making it apparent to all that the Spirit of God was on David. It was in one of these states that in 1 Samuel 18:10 that we see almost a mirror action of Crowder and Dunn. "The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand and he hurled it, saying to himself, 'I'll pin David to the wall.' But David eluded him twice." (1 Samuel 18:10-11). When the word "prophesying" is used here, it is used as in 1 Kings 18:29 by the false prophets who were opposing Elijah. In these contexts, it means "ecstatic raving," not the type of prophesying that is done when one is filled with God. It is frantic, unlike the prophecy of those in the Bible who spoke with authority and the power of God (Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc...).
-David. If you've read the Psalms, you can get a glimpse into what David felt and went through spiritually. He was a man who knew the joy of the Lord, a man after God's own heart as Samuel prophesied to Saul. I found a few verses that Crowder and Dunn may use to support their ministry, such as "You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand." (Psalm 16:11), "Surely you have granted him eternal blessings and made him glad with the joy of your presence" (Psalm 21:6), "You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy" (Psalm 45:7). When we are with God, when we (like David) are in the presence of God, we can find joy and it's a beautiful thing! But where does it say that the joy David has here is one when he was in a trance? Is this the only way David found to experience God's pure joy? Of course not. When David felt God's joy, he did not show it by being as one drunk with joy, but rather, he sang about it, wrote about it, shouted about it with prayers to God... not mindless babble. Reading the Psalms, you can find A TON of examples of this, but here's some quick references (Psalm 126, 92:4, 65:8, 66:1).
Much more to come... stay tuned! And also, let me hear your thoughts on the topic. Not only will I be touching on the different people in the Bible that they use for support, but also the reasons that God gives us joy and what we are REALLY supposed to do with this overwhelming joy we receive from Him.
6 comments:
John Crowder and “familiar spirits”
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Since scripture ALWAYS asserts DRUNKENNESS as UNRIGHTEOUS, then all drunken manifestations which are claimed to be from God are actually a MOCKERY of scripture, a mockery of Jesus Christ, and a mockery of the Holy Spirit.
Prov 21:17 He who LOVES PLEASURE will become poor; whoever LOVES WINE and oil will never be rich.
1 Thessalonians 5:6-8 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and BE SOBER. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day BE SOBER, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
Since John Crowder and those in agreement with him are being affected by REAL SPIRITUAL POWERS, and since their manifestations contradict REPEATING SCRIPTURAL COUNSEL against drunkenness and loss of self control, then the spiritual power MUST BE from Satan and his minions called “familiar spirits”, or demons.
These are the spirit guides of New Age religion, the occult, and Roman Catholicism (eg. Mariology).
Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have FAMILIAR SPIRITS, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
“Familiar Spirits” – see http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=familiar&version1=9&searchtype=all&limit=none&wholewordsonly=no
Note that King Saul got into trouble for consulting “familiar spirits”.
John Crowder and those who follow his perverted ways have FALLEN IN LOVE WITH A COUNTERFEIT “angel of light”, “the God of this age”, and may have the same destiny:
2 Cor 4:4 The GOD OF THIS AGE has BLINDED THE MINDS of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Spiritual drunkenness BLINDS THE MINDS of BELIEVERS!
2 Cor 11:14-15 Satan himself MASQUERADES as an ANGEL OF LIGHT. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
Rev 20:10 And the devil, who DECEIVED THEM, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Playing around with counterfeit “angels of light” might be BLISS and ECSTASY now, but if not repented of will lead to REJECTION by the Most High God FOREVER.
The “big party” will occur in heaven AFTER WE DIE, not now (see Rev 19:9).
Scripture asserts we now have SERIOUS WORK to do while remaining firmly SOBER.
2 Tim 4:3-5 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But you, KEEP YOUR HEAD in all situations, endure hardship, DO THE WORK of an evangelist, discharge ALL THE DUTIES of your ministry.
People who turn up DRUNK at work GET FIRED.
People who GET DRUNK with “familiar spirits” from Lucifer will GET FIRED into the lake of fire, if they don’t REPENT prior.
John Crowder’s “HEAVY, WEIGHTY, drunken glory” may be a premonition of the WEIGHT OF A MILLSTONE:
Luke 17:1-2 Jesus said to his disciples: "Things that cause people to sin are bound to come, but woe to that person through whom they come. It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a MILLSTONE TIED AROUND HIS NECK than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.
John Crowder’s mocking ministry is not to the unsaved, as they would be repulsed by his bizarre acts which are IDENTICAL TO MENTAL ILLNESS.
John’s ministry is to cause CORRUPTION OF EXISTING CHRISTIANS by encouraging them to mock God with improper revelry, and form relationships with Satan’s minions, “familiar spirits”, and so reclaim Christians for the Devil.
1 John 4:1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Matthew 24:10-13 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and MANY FALSE PROPHETS will appear and DECEIVE MANY PEOPLE. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but HE WHO STANDS FIRM to the end will be saved.
Getting DRUNK and FALLING DOWN is the opposite of STANDING FIRM.
The “slain in the spirit” (falling down) phenomena is not from God of Gen 1:1, it is from “god of this age” 2 Cor 4:4
The only exception is falling down after being killed by God for wrongdoing (eg. Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11). Slain means being killed.
Instead of teaching people to fear the Lord, John Crowder is teaching them to treat God as an object to be indulged, like a prostitute for sex lust and drunken dissipation.
It is deception and blasphemy to associate these immoralities with “the joy of the Lord” mentioned in the Bible.
Rom 13:12-14 The night is far spent, the day is at hand. Therefore let us CAST OFF the works of darkness, and let us put on the armor of light. Let us WALK PROPERLY, as in the day, NOT IN REVELRY AND DRUNKENNESS, NOT IN LEWDNESS AND LUST, not in strife and envy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts.
Manifestations from “familiar spirits” might feel good, but IMMORAL ACTIVITIES always do FEEL GOOD, such as drunkenness, drug taking, and fornication.
Following John Crowder’s ways is spiritual immorality.
The only response to this situation is either accepting the certainty of DAMNATION to Hell, or REPENTING while there is still opportunity.
Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the VILE, the murderers, the SEXUALLY IMMORAL, those who PRACTICE MAGIC ARTS, the IDOLATERS and all LIARS--their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Proverbs 14:12, 16:25 There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death
Psalm 111:10-112:1 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all who follow his precepts have good understanding. To him belongs eternal praise.
Praise the LORD. Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, who finds great delight in his commands.
I hope this is helpful.
Sorry, didn't mean to make the previous post "anonymous" (it was mine), just clicked the wrong button.
Thanks for being a watchman. Good stuff.
Wow, that's incredibly helpful. It's a lot of what I found too... I think you and two more of my friends make a good point about that- I'll post what they said on here as well.
I love how I read all of this on my 21st birthday... today. Ironic? Nah, I attribute it back to God.
Sadly, ANY averagely intelligent 10 year old UNBELIEVING CHILD could easily have done the CORRECT DISCERNMENT of John Crowder type ministry with the most BASIC LOGIC:
“Dad, those church people look like they’re nuts. They’re vibrating, twitching, having slurred speech, gibberish speech and sound effects, animal acts – dogs, chickens, lions, etc., staggering about, falling over, and having uncontrollable/irrational laughter”.
“Son, stay away from them, they must be into something devilish”.
That is the correct discernment.
When people manifesting like John Crowder and Todd Bentley are accepted in churches, it is proof there is no discernment at all.
Some church people have been chasing NOVELTY.
They want “dinner and a show” from “the spiritual powers”.
The Devil is obliging by turning churches into Hellish niteclubs with demonic acts.
The Bible does not encourage Christians to seek “dinner and a show”. That is just a disguised seeking of hedonistic self indulgence, similar to the worldly wallowing in sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
If God has given instruction and counsel in a book (Bible), then it is no good ignoring the book and insisting God must give those instructions another way such as dreams/visions, angels, etc.
In that disobedience the devil can turn up to deceive, or worse, God may hand you over to delusions (2Thess 2:11) for not loving the truth (reading and following Bible instruction).
Jesus said “a wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign” (Matt 12:39).
Does “asking for a miraculous sign” COMMAND a PERFORMANCE from God just like the pursuit of supernatural experiences such as being “slain in the spirit”, “Toronto Blessing”, heavenly visitations and visions, etc.?
The Bible does not endorse people directing the Holy Spirit or teach methods to repeatedly make supernatural experiences or events occur in a style of presumption ahead of God’s sovereignty.
The desire to have experiences could be a self indulgent avoidance of what God really wants us to do.
When this disobedience and lack of discernment are combined, people may easily accept counterfeit phenomena from the Devil:
Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.
Could Christian fellowships become dens of the occult with things like body vibrations, howlings, apparitions, and visions given by demons?
Yes, some already are.
The seeking of experiences could be an attempt to treat the Holy Spirit like a circus clown or temple prostitute for personal indulgence.
All these wrong things may be tolerated because there is no fear of God and poor discernment:
Prov 1:29-31 Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD, since they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke, they will EAT THE FRUIT OF THEIR WAYS and BE FILLED WITH THE FRUIT OF THEIR SCHEMES.
Christians should discern and reject fraudulent church ministries:
2 Cor 11:13-15 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
Their end will be what their actions deserve!
1 Tim 6:11 But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness.
Because we still live in the realm of good and evil, then being an authentic witness of the truth includes giving critique against falsehood.
The Bible predicts the majority following evil rather than good:
Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and MANY enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and ONLY A FEW find it.
Any adequate challenge against John Crowder type ministry and teachings will by nature HAVE TO appear as a TEARING DOWN, similar to why the corrupt works of a drug dealer SHOULD BE TORN DOWN.
Because they cause harm by promoting misleading teachings and enticement to spiritually fornicate with Satan’s minions, familiar spirits:
Deut 18:10-12 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
Or a charmer, or a CONSULTER WITH FAMILIAR SPIRITS, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD
The worker remains, even if his EVIL WORKS are demolished.
In the Old Testament era both were demolished simultaneously by stoning to death. In these times simply warning others of reasons to not participate can effect a demolishing of the harm. Warning the worker may effect the same.
Hebrews 10:28-31 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
“trampled the Son of God under foot”.
How about John Crowder’s “smoking baby Jesus”?
Seems like blatant desecration to me.
YouTube is full of “Bible snorters”, “Drinking from the breasts of heaven”, “Drunken Glory” manifesters, all being promoted by John Crowder type ministers.
When people discern and reject this stuff, they are passing an important test.
It is a gross insult of “the Spirit of grace” (Holy Spirit) to associate him with manifestations like mental illness and drunken / drugged, such as confused/irrational thinking, vibrating, twitching, groaning, shrieking, roaring, gibberish speech and sound effects, animal acts – dogs, snakes chickens, lions, pigs, etc., staggering about, falling over, uncontrollable/irrational laughter.
These are either effects of the flesh or evil spirits, but not the Holy Spirit.
They are the manifestations occurring through Toronto “Blessing”, Todd Bentley, John Crowder, Benjamin Dunn, and many others.
2 Cor 10:5 We DEMOLISH ARGUMENTS AND EVERY PRETENSION that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
People who follow blasphemous deceptions WILL end up in Hell if they never change.
Some have been deceived, and exposing the false ministries gives them the option of an ESCAPE ROUTE.
There is grace for their repentance, as long as their hearts are not too deeply in love with the counterfeit "angel of light" - Lucifer (2Cor 11:14)
John Crowder has prophesied over himself “get whacked, stay whacked, and never look back”.
That looks like he has shut out the option of repentance for himself.
Not good.
Jude 1:21-25 Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear--hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy--to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
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